Merry Meet all! MY name is Thodwen, and I am fifteen years old. I have been a dedicant of the 1st degree for the past year and three months; However I have come to a standstill in my clerical studies. I do know that within the Correllian tradition, the traditional by-laws state that anyone whom is not yet of legal age, cannot become fully initiated into clergy, however as I've said, this poses a rather large hindrance to my own, and most likely a few other's studies. I figured, considering the new changes made within the Correllian by-laws regarding the length of time of service within the tradition required to become an elder, that maybe the tradition would also consider changing, or modifying another by-law. My general idea is: If a minor wishes to become initiated as clergy after completing the required courses and assignments assigned unto them by his/her mentor and/or temple, that the Witch in question would be able to write a detailed essay as to why he/she wishes to become a part of the clergy, what it means to be part of the Correllian clergy, as well as he/she would give detailed answers to questions on Correllian philosophy, theology, correspondences, Deity, et cetera; as well as any other questions the tradition would see as suitable to ask. My main reasoning for this is because, once I complete the 1st degree lessons and assignments, sure I could move on to the 2nd degree courses and assignments, but by the time I actually would get to write the clerical application essay, and fulfill the other requirements, my fear is that I would be "rusty" in certain areas, considering the fact that it would be three years from now until I would be able to actually apply for Clerical Status. I just like forward movement, and to me, waiting that long for a number seems a bit unnecessary if one is qualified in every area but age. I just thought I would give a propostion!
Thanks for reading! Blessed Be!

-Thodwen

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I like your idea! In fact...I'll do it!
The answer is simple, it is against United States Law. The Youngest clergy we have is those who have taken their oaths at 18 years old. Liz Hamilton did that, and that was the youngest allowable at law.

It is that simple.

M.rev. Don Lewis himself began acting as a priest at 13 years old, but did not pursue ordination as we know it until he was 30 years of age.
Oh! I thought it was moreso a "within the tradition" thing. Wow! I can understand a bit more why it would be like this. I doubt it will change anytime soon too. Some people are fully prepared spiritually, emotionally, mentally and academically, as well as vey experienced at a young age, but, it takes a long time for parlaiment to realize these sorts of things. I mean look at African rights, Women's rights, Slavery, and the Witch trials themselves (not that I'm comparing this issue to those ones). It took a lot of time. What do you know! I drew the east wall!
I think if you want to be a elder, you should go for it and keep on studying the old studies with the new so you won't be rusty when you take the essay exam. I really hope you become a elder soon. Pecae and Love!
Nia
Sure, they can become clergy as long as the entire coven is around the same age.

'Clergy' in this definition would just be the kids that lead the group. They can't be officially ordained as Ed said.
I have to say i agree with Thodwen . If a person meets all the other required study's . And can answer all the right questions that they need to know for clerical status , then the persons age should not matter . I am 36 years old but i feel strongly about this . Bleesed Be .
Ah, agreeance is always reassuring! Thank you!
Ok I wasnt going to comment on this post but I kept being drawn back to read it over and over. For example this last time I had meant to click on a totally different link and still ended up here.

The issues as I see them are what is legal in some countries may not be legal in others. The age factor being the main one discussed. Age is just a number is my first statement about that and your physical age has nothing to do with your maturity or knowledge or ability. Now as to the parent thing how would an "adult" that is 42 and has never had children be able to give someone advice on putting the magical experience into the 10 yr olds life. As far as I'm concerned the 15 yr old would give better advice on that due to the fact they are closer to the 10 yr olds age and would have a better perspective on what would be magical to someone of that age.

Now I am not saying that anyone of any age is or should be or can be clergy. What I AM saying is we are all different and there should be a step between lay person and clergy for those persons that are not able to for some reason become clergy like physical age. Also there is nothing saying you cant continue your studies while your waiting for that time to have passed so that you have the full LEGAL rights that clergy status would convey and you are always able to further meditate and study on the first degree lessons so that you will better understand them. This would not only strengthen and reinforce the lessons but give you time to master those skills to the utmost of your abilities and make you a stronger and better person spiritually, mentally and physically.

Ok I think I've ranted enough about age and I'll just go sit in my corner on the porch and yell at the kids to get off my lawn some more.

Blessed be

Rob
I should also point out that I firmly believe there should be a childrens area on the site with activities that would help kids of a younger age understand and appreciate the Wiccan tradition. For with out children to follow this path the path will be forgotten. Perhaps this would be an area the teens could help develop and they could mentor the younger children with supervision of course. Something like the classes but with more age appropriate activities that they would enjoy more for example pictures of a god to color and then some information about the god. This would be something that would be a perfect outlet for energy of both the teens and the younger children that could be beneficial to both. Mind its just an idea.
What is it with us adults that we think all kids are stupid and inapt . Come on , we need to get off our high horse and understand that some kids are a lot smarter then the adults around them . Have you watched the news ? You might see one kid on the news for doing something bad for every five hundred adults on the news doing something bad . Yet we say the kids are the ones that need to grow up ? Give me a break please ! ! ! Again I am 36 years old but i feel strongly about this . Blessed Be .
I like Rob have been brought back to this post numerous times.

Let me share this, My ex was a pastor of a church (christian), I have seen many grown men who were elected to the position of elder, I watched them step into these positions and shook my head in disbelief. My boys knew more than them at 13. You could tell them a problem and they could tell you a Scripture to help. They knew all the the right things to say and do. It's not their passion so I knew it wouldn't be an issue, but even so my oldest son could have gotten up in front of the church and preached a message that would knock your socks off. Yet these men were given these positions, and I had many an disagreements with the other pastor over this issue, as why is a man put in a position to lead people and my children knew more about the Bible than them. My point is age did not make the man. Knowledge made the person.

I have fought to have a programs that would allow them to utilize their knowledge in a real world setting. I have seen teens leave the church because they felt that they were not useful, that everyone had to wait till your an adult. I had taught a children"s program, as the leader of this I brought in many of the teens who were to old for this particular program, I paired them with an adult and so each teen was just as responsible for a group of children. It really helped them grow in their faith and the kids loved it. It also was a blessing in that teen and the adult became very close. I believe for any faith across the board we have to bridge the gap between age. We need to stop looking at age and look at ability. If legal issues cause us to have to bring age in as a factor than I think we can find a compromise.

and so I wonder is their not something that we can do as a group, to take our younger members and while they are still learning put them into some real world settings, whether this be a mentoring, assistant, apprenticeship, or some similar program. It could take these students, let them continue their studies always bringing past knowledge to use and making them feel like they are truly apart of this until they reach the age allowed by the state.
While clergy is something many aim for, it is not the most important role within any tradition or group. Clergy requires those who do not feel called, so that they have a reason to serve. Clergy is about service not status, but in the end we all serve in some capacity. If you are genuinely called to the task of being clergy, then waiting 3 years will not be a hard thing to do, for in the mean time you have the chance to build on the knowledge you already have, develop plans and ideas, and grow into the best young person you can be.

Do you have to be clergy to study second degree? NO YOU DON'T! You can finish all the degree programs before applying for clergy, because clergy is not about book learning. Some people have no interest in clergy, only in knowledge, and we need those people in our tradition as much as we need the air we breath. Take the time to enjoy the wait, because clergy can be quite a rollercoaster, and once you get on the tracks, its hard to get off before the end.

Listen to people like Rob, whose idea would give you a task well worth the effort not just for you but for others like you. Don't give up because you can't have what you want NOW... Instead, make the most of the time and grow in it. You seem a bright one, so use the smarts you were born with, and the faith that helped you perservere, and create something for yourself to do, and for others in the same boat to continue. You never know, you may even find you have found the purpose your calling came to you for.

Blessings and good luck.

Citrine

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