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Permalink Reply by Drakill Tannan on February 28, 2011 at 9:55pm

You seek enlighment? You are going the wrong way. In fact, the exact oposite.

Enlighment and selfishness don't mix. The left hand path won't do you any good. We are all part of a larger sistem, and harming the sistem to gain benefit harms you in the end, because you are part of the sistem. Furthermore it feeds the illusion of individuality, but much like the cells in your body you are but part of something greater. Selfishness and the left hand path are thus cancer.

Enlighment and chaos magick don't mix. Chaos magic is passional and wild, advocates to the lower more animalistic nature of human beings, your "Inferior will" as i call it, makes the dense matter command the spirit, not the other way arround. A better aproach is to detach from feelings and be rational about everyhting, always thinking in the greater good, but that doesn't lead to enlighment. If you seek enlighment you need to submit your mind to the good intent of the heart, and your heart to the wisdom of the mind, both must work, not just one. Chaos magic will be no good to you.

Let me tell you a story.
Lucifer is not an entity. It is an entire humanity. They are angels that remained stuck in their spiritual development, and are supposed to wait untill the conditions are suited again for them to incarnate and learn the lessons they missed to keep moving foward. But they don't want to wait. Luciferians came into this world and tried to haste their evolutionary proces by using the humans, they possesed them and learned through them, but to do so they had to change the animal´-like humans into a humanity with inteligence. They did, they entered through the spine of the women of humanity (eve) and acended to their brains, helping their development. While this gave humanity inteligence, it was against the plans of our higher brothers (arcahngels, gods..) because humanity wasn't ready for intelligence, as a result what was supposed to be a smooth, painless but slow transition between states of life has now become a hasted but very painfull and potentially self-destructive proces. Humans are nearly destroying the planet, and they wouldn't have if the luciferians hand't gave them intelligence when they shouldn't have.

We revere the luciferians as masters that gave us intelligence, yes. But they acted wrong, and this lack of wisdom created all the pain on the earth today. Not the best path to follow. Luciferian ideology tends towards that, i could say it is not convenient. Remember: what does not benefits everyone, benefits none, yet what harms one harms all.

This is a story told in occult traditions, at least two from wich i've heard it.

If you are going to work with sigils, be VERY carefull. I don't know much about them, except that they are powerfull. You're playing with fire, try to at least study enough so that you don't walk near a barrel of gunpowder.

If you seek enlighment you need to join an initiatic order, there is little other way that i know of. You can always ask your guides to teach you, but generally you need to achive certian level before you can get such master, or so i've heard. Initiatic orders can, at the very least, place you on the right path. I'd recomend Masonry, that is very open towards everyone. Rosicrucian orders too (i don't think AMORC is real though), the gnositcs, the hermetic order of the golden dawn, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Valgandr on March 1, 2011 at 10:10am

Well Drakill,

When Robert speaks of seeking enlighment, he doesn't mean becoming more light filled - he is speaking of gaining higher awareness and the knowledge that provides greater control of his environment. As with the TAO there is the half of Creation which is STS and half that is STO. The Service to Self universe often called the Dark realm and the other called the Light realm each chasing the other and in their unity operating as a dynamic engine moving forward all of Creation. Each side operating as the opposite yet with equal potential. Each is valid yet extremely different.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Zeus Vidal on March 1, 2011 at 10:18am

yea its like the principles of Yin and Yang...

A lot of books tell me that to achieve enlightenment, you have to be able to control your good and dark sides.. when the universe (God) was created... he has a twin brother (the dark side) it resides in everything.. in science one of its forms is antimatter.... anyways.... exploring the dark side doesnt really mean that u gta kill or something... as long as you harm none there are plenty of ways to explore the dark side or the other side of you.. thats what I've read.. I hope I got it right... hehe

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Permalink Reply by Rob on March 1, 2011 at 2:38am

Chaos Magick is just an offshoot of Ceremonial Magick, it is not LHP material.

If you're interested in sigil magic, I would suggest Liber Null by Carrol. Not only is it one of the foundations of Chaos Magick, but it contains the foundation for modern sigil magic. I'd suggest staying away from sigil magic though. Early on its fairly powerful. It utilizes certain mental tricks to tap subconcious power which allows you to do magic you'd normally be incapable of doing. Over the long term though it trains the wrong skills. What ends up happening is you become very good at tapping that subconcious power, but you never actually train that power and make it stronger. If you learn how to utilize this power without the use of the sigils, you'll ultimately end up far more powerful. To each his own though.

As for the Luciferian and Left Hand Path stuff I'd have to know what you're working with to know if its any good. Any good magician is eventually going to have to deal with dark magic and go to the dark places. There are answers and power and all sorts of other stuff deep in the lower planes that can't be found anywhere else, and with everything spiritual the key is almost always balance and moderation. Anyone that claims that they are entirely of the LHP or the RHP, are weak and inexperienced.

The thing about the LHP is most of the information out there is BS from people trying to be dark and scary and gothy or whatever. I had a 17 year old Satanist working for me once who told me he had trouble doing the morning shifts because he was of the darkness. When you talk like that you sound like an idiot and people laugh at you, and that's how most LHP material reads. There is some good LHP material out there though. I'd suggest the Simon Necronomicon if you want something that works and isn't too dark. If you want to get a bit darker give Kenneth Grant a whirl.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Zeus Vidal on March 1, 2011 at 2:44am

Well, Really thanks to all of you... Maybe I have been blinded by the powers of luciferians. But I did start from Wicca, It was just not nurtured well and I stumbled upon new stuff even before I got to finish what I started.....
Ive read an awful lot of books of chaos magick and they were very convincing...from gnosticism to sorcery.... I have tried some of them... because some actually are nice practices such as liberation, meditation, etc (ofcourse I believe there are also stuff like these in Wicca... I was just not led to that path....

So guys, What path dyu think is the best to achieve enlightenment... where I will have a more productive system of beliefs and practices that if done correctly, frequently and for the good of everyone will surely enlighten me in my quests into this world....?

I know these paths vary individually but I need some advice to jump start me to my rightful path...

Really guys.... I know now that this is where I belong, thanks to all of you....

Merry meet everyone... and please continue helping me....

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Permalink Reply by Drakill Tannan on March 1, 2011 at 7:35am

Initiatic orders. Masonry, Thelmines, Gnostics, Rosicrucians (Not AMORC), Golden Dawn, etc.
I'd stay away from sorcery and mystic traditions, and seek occult traditions instead.

Also, read the Kybalion if so far you haven't. Hermetism ftw

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Permalink Reply by Robert Zeus Vidal on March 1, 2011 at 2:54am

@ROb somehow I just read ur reply... and I have read Caroll's Liber Null....

Another thing I want to confirm here...

What is the path usually followed by everyone here?

Wicca? Chaos magick? Sorcery? LHP? RHP? Somewhere between RHP and LHP? Combination of many paths?

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Permalink Reply by Drakill Tannan on March 1, 2011 at 7:42am

And to clarify, Wicca and chaos magic are sistems of sorcery.

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Permalink Reply by Sparrow (Daniel Michael) on March 2, 2011 at 1:12am

I am confused Drakill Wicca is not exactly sorcery but we may be getting into a silly language debate here,
What is the difference between an Occult tradition and what you are calling a Mystical tradition is it organized lineage?

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Permalink Reply by Redsiren on March 2, 2011 at 7:43am

Hi Robert. A couple of years ago I was also seeking enlightenment. It was then that I attended Kabbalah. And yes they are into it. Try researching on that. I also got the chance to do lessons for TFA (The firefly Academy). And Kabbalah is one of lessons I had there. Though it is mostly basic ....still they are about enlightenment. Hope you will find the answers soon.
Bright blessings Redsiren

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Permalink Reply by Redsiren on March 2, 2011 at 8:07am

Wicca although a religion in itself doesn't conform much to a protocol or a book with guidelines and all like the Bible. There are many types of wiccan. One from a coven or a solitary one. As solitary like me... I am ecclectic. Incorporating the best of everything. Some follow a certain path like gardenian, dianic etc. BB Redsiren

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