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I will begin with a disclaimer: in the present post, I will use the words Wicca and witchcraft, and Wiccan and witch, interchangeably, because the author of the statement I'll be referring to uses both words that way. It does not reflect my personal belief, but that of the Correllian Tradition.

I have come across this statement in the last lesson (#48) of the class "Living the Wiccan Life," in the Self-Wiccaning's intro:

"I believe that Wiccans are born, not made. If this is the path of heart for you, you were born a Wiccan, and probably have been Wiccan in many if not all of your past lives."

I had to re-read it a few times to make sure I hadn't hallucinated.

Now. I have no problem with the idea that Wicca is a path of the heart.

However.

You CANNOT be BORN a Wiccan. This is absurd. Wicca is a religion! Can you be born a Christian? Or a Muslim? Or a Buddhist? No, no, and no. You are NEVER born into a religion. Saying you were born into a specific religious path is a segregationist lie. You CHOOSE, at some point, a certain faith, either by continuing to follow what you were taught or by changing religions, because that's where your heart and soul resonate. The same applies to Wicca.

Stating that one is born a Wiccan (in the sense of witch) is dangerously close to elitism. It is dangerously close to the “we, and not them” mentality. “You gotta be born into it.” This is, quite simply, a wrong value to uphold.

Not to mention the second part of the statement: “probably have been Wiccan in many, if not all, of your past lives.”

First, a bit of history: Wicca, as a spiritual path, has existed only since the late 1940's. Second, Witchcraft, from what little is known of it, was not exactly a religion before Gardner. AND, most importantly, thinking that one is part of only one religion in all of their incarnations, as is suggested here, is incredibly narrow-minded.

How can one presume that all of the followers of Wicca in 2010 have been witches in past lives (maybe all of them!), and that explains why they come to the craft now?

Don't tell me once a witch, always a witch. Don't tell me that today's witches could not have been, in another life, something else than a Wiccan. As we come in each incarnation to learn and experience, it goes without saying that we all have experienced different religious paths, including those who are opposed to the craft. Oh yes. Even those. Some Wiccans today HAVE sent people to the pyre, and some of those convicted witches are Christian Fundamentalists today.

If one was NEVER a witch in any previous life, but is a witch in this one, is s/he less a witch than another who was a witch 50 times before? Don't tell me that in order to be a true witch, one has to have been a witch in a previous life.

Don't tell me that today's Christian Fundamentalists, or the Talibans, or the atheists, have never been anything else than what they are today, or are forever condemned to remain so for the rest of their Soul's existence!

Don't tell me that a fervent Wiccan who, for some reason, at some point feels a call toward Buddhism and changes faith, was not a true Wiccan while he walked the path of Wicca!

Don't tell me that the Soul is forever attached to one walk of faith only... That speaks of discrimination.

Still, in a very subtle way, that statement hints at these very ideas....

Let's consider this: the Soul couldn't care less about religion – let alone Deity. Deity will put you on the path that will make you grow at a specific time – and that will change from life to life, and even during one life, it goes without saying. One is not Wiccan because it's their Soul's intrinsic nature – they are Wiccan because in this particular lifetime, or in this specific time of their life, their Soul needs them to be Wiccan in order to grow and experience.

Why did the above statement disturb me so much?

Because I am an initiate of the Correllian Tradition, and the person who wrote this statement is one of its co-heads, Lady Krystel Highcorrell. Due to her position within the Tradition, she represents the Tradition and its values... And she writes (and thus, most likely upholds) something like this.

I'm not done yet.

Same lesson (#48), still written by Lady Krystel:

"Because of the work you have done in these lessons, you are a Wiccan now."

Wait a minute.

A Wiccan NOW? Because one has done the work in the lessons??

I thought she said one was born a Wiccan, not made?!? If that was true, wouldn't one be Wiccan even BEFORE taking Lesson #1? Was one less of a Wiccan during Lesson#1 than during Lesson#48? Why is the student told he is a student *because* he's finished the lessons and done the work?

On one page, one is born a Wiccan, not made – on the other, one becomes Wiccan through work, thus “made”... Here's a nice contradiction! Which statement is true, then?

Let me quote a blogger (with his kind permisson) from another forum – he presents my view wonderfully:

People are not born on the path. They choose to walk it. No matter how many people in your family are/were practicing, no matter how much you might have been taught by them... Unless you identify as a follower of whatever path you are talking about and actually walk it, you are not in it.
-- Alorer the Greek (Stef)

I don't think I could make my point clearer than Alorer did.

To finish, I would appreciate (one can dream, right?) if someone of authority in the Tradition cleared that up for me. With a serious and precise answer – avoiding the politically correct bullcrap, and the side-step-and-dance replies that some favor.

This is important – as these are values put forth by a leader of the Tradition, thus reflecting what the Tradition holds true.


Brightest Blessings,

Rev. Elise

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Dear Rev. Elise,

Twenty years ago what impressed me the most about the witchcraft movement was that it was an open ended system that had room for individual interpretation and practices. There was an absence of central dogma; and whether it was religion or spiritual technology was open for personal interpretation. What disturbs me is your interpretation of the statement as not as one witches opinion, but as dogma.

There has always been debate among us about this opinion. Every human being has the right to their personal opinion. This statement is not new to the movement and whether you believe the witchcraft revival is a new phenomena or based on an older set of practices and beliefs that predate Christianity; you are a valuable part of the movement and questioning this idea is essential. What is also important is to remember that dogma arrests attention and stops the free flow of thoughts and ideas. Was this opinion ever intended to be a central cannon of witchcraft? I think not. There will be contradictions as long as there are free people expressing their own ideas about what it means to be a witch. I know lots of witches, wiccans and pagans; and they are all individuals practicing what works for them. The great thing about witchcraft is that we can respect each others differences.

In my coven training I learned that witchcraft is not a religion and that witches use what works. It is a craft; a technology. Invoking the Goddess is not an act of religion but by the scientific definition: a repeatable experiment that works. The existence of the Goddess for me is not faith but an amazing personal and shared experience. I also learned that how I interpreted what I learned was up to me and I was also authorized to teach what I learned. It was a very progressive coven with a huge coven library.

As far as predating Christianity the existence of an Etruscan Magical Library goes back to 300 B.C. and the existence of paganism is well documented historically by the Greeks and Romans. So your dating the beginning of witchcraft to the 1940’s really doesn’t hold water.

For you wicca/witchcraft is a religion; that is not wrong because it is different for different people. But if your looking for Dogma your in the wrong place; or on the wrong path. What is important is what witchcraft is to you; not what it means to other people who are not you.

Sincerely
Dea
Elise requested clarification from someone with experience. Why are you clarifying for me what she intended to ask? How do I respond to that? Maybe you don't think she is capable of communicating her own question?

If your saying thier was and is now a central dogma; then Elise is right to rip apart the contradictions and attack the elitist values.

Okay; let me be more specific; among covens in central California and the Bay Area there was no central dogma. I was a member of a network of over a dozen covens who held mountain meets twenty years ago. It was a diverse collection of different groups and traditions. Nobody tried to convert any one; central networking hubs such as the Brass Unicorn tried to match students with teachers. There is still a Council of Elders who survived the changes that have taken place over time.

Some groups devolved into dogmatic organizations and are no longer affiliated with any of the original groups. Dogma is poison; and in fact led to conflict between groups and individuals that did not end well.

And I just like to say thanks for devaluing my experience by letting me know that my teachers and friends in California were apparently not a part of the witchcraft movement. Furthermore it is the usage of words in common language that defines thier meaning; and most Wiccan’s I know identify their practices as rooted in pre-Christian practices. You apparently underestimate my knowledge base.

I am not the end all be all; I am a Student of the Path. As we all are Students. Learning never stops.
Dear Still Speaking for Elise (whos post that I Originally Commented on):

How do we take back the night? How do we recover from the defamation by the patriarchy: of the power of the Witch?

Disinformation was clearly recorded as history. Furthermore there is a vast gulf between the idea that usage defines language and I never said anything about the dictionary disinformation intended to defame witches.

I never said my experience was everyone’s; you said my experience was invalid; period.

I make it clear that I am referring to my subjective experience; but I also make clear that I was a part of a network of diverse groups in a specific area at a specific time.

You saying I am being narrow is the pot calling the kettle black.

Lots of Witches and Authors who write for the Wiccan movement have taken the name of Witch to recover the word out of the shadow of ignorance and into the light of knowledge. Including Starhawk and Laurie Cabot; I am shocked that you said Witches are Satanist. I guess you have answered any questions I might have had about the authenticity of this site.

Here I quote you implying that I am a Satanist.

“Your key words were "most wiccans I know." In most dictionaries it still defines "Witch" as "Devil worshipers." Is that your truth? If not, you use the word differently than "the norm." As do we.”

I am shocked: I am a witch on a witchcraft site being told witches worship the devil!!!

Omg times infinity squared.

Sorry for bothering you; I won’t visit your site again.

Thanks
Dea
Your are misunderstanding what she is saying. She is pointing out that the general term Witch in most dictionaries means devil worshiper. She is not calling you one.
Dea, Isarma is NOT calling you a Satanist - she is pointing out how the *dictionary* defines the word *witch*, which is obviously a wrong definition; she is making a *parallel* with the act of having to redefine words because their previous definitions are erroneous.

Read her post again carefully - you'll see. :)
Right on. As you so correctly pointed out Wicca is a new religion. Although the craft it imitates has existed sense
the beginning of time. Discrepancies in print and oral lessons must be identified and corrected. It is for the good of the whole 
movement and integrity of the religion. If I truly wanted a religion that contradicted
itself and then made stuff up as it moved along I would have been a Christian. Good work sister

Epic thread necromancy.
You just resurected a nearly 2 year-dead thread.

Oh. Wow.

Considering that this thread is two years old, as Drakill said, and that this topic has already been thoroughly discussed, I can't see why there is any need to add to it.

I am closing this thread now.

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