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I've been pondering the Nature of Divinity, and the idea of Monotheism. As used by Christians, I think the idea of 'One God' is nonsense. Paganism had the concept of Triple Godesses and Gods quite firmly entrenched at the time of the rise of Christianity, and I suspect that the concept of the 'Trinity' was adopted directly from Paganism.
Christianity claims to worship one God, who mystically is at the same time three individual Gods, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Where is this different from the Goddess, in Her aspects as Maiden, Mother, and Crone, or the God, as Son, Sire, and Sage??
I see this as yet another commonality of Christianity and a number of different forms of Paganism. Does anyone else suspect that Formal Sectarian Christianity may yet topple of it's own dogmatism?
Permalink Reply by Laramie Roush on " . . . they are the true 'Seekers'. I don't call them Christian or Jewish, however, as they have transcended the limitations of the doctrines and dogmas of those Faiths."
And now we seek to do the same. You are a wonderfully wise Witch.
BB,
Larry
Permalink Reply by Phoenix Rising on Larry, thank you, but i don't consider myself 'wise' when there is so very much I DON'T know! LOL!! I am still just a Seeker, in my own way, on my own Path~~
Permalink Reply by Pumpkin Eater on Well the Theology of the Trinity was developed about 300 years after Jesus died. The Christians don't deny that, they simply think it's true etc.
Permalink Reply by Phoenix Rising on That's a very good point to bring up, Raincloud!! there are an awful lot of people who aren't aware of their own religion's history. Even those who are superficially aware only think the Council of Nicaea was to compose the Nicaean Creed - LOL!! They are blissfully unaware that Emperor Constantine called that Council in 325 CE to bring order to the Church and set a consistent Doctrine and Dogma so that it would be a cohesive force for the Roman Empire, as it's State Religion. Most also don't realize that this was indeed a necessity, as it had come down to fighting in the streets between the adherents of different points of view.
The most hotly debated point was the status of Jesus. Was he all God, all Man, or Man-become-God due to His baptism and the purported words from the sky at the time?? That's why the Creed has a heavy focus on Jesus' origins and antecedents and status as ...One God, with the Father...", and goes on to include the Holy Spirit as the third part of the Godhead.
Setting aside the esoteric meanings of the Trinity, the participants were under heavy pressure by the Emperor to come to an agreement. As the Triple God was a concept familiar to them all from the Pagan religions around them, and a concept familiar to Constantine, it was accepted that the Christians had a similar concept, with three co-equal manifestations of the Godhead.
Those who did not agree, such as the Gnostics, were ejected from the Council, so that it could come to agreement. They were later persecuted savagely, and most were killed or forced to recant.
The foundations of the Roman Christian Church were in blood, and not just the blood of the martyrs. The blood of the dissidents through the ages has underpinned the formal Church from it's inception at Nicaea~~
The Protestant movement in Western Europe was no different. The essential beliefs were the same. they only set out to 'reform' the Church and bring it into compliance with what they felt Christianity SHOULD be. It was all highly politicized, of course. At that time, each country was decreed to be of the same Faith as it's King, so their own dissidents were persecuted as heretics, or expelled from their countries, to be accepted by a neighboring nation of the same orientation.
Permalink Reply by Pumpkin Eater on Agreed. :)
The irony is, when Christian I couldn't accept the Trinity, but as a Wiccan, I have no problem with the Triple Goddess. I think because it's obvious the Christian trinity was tacked on to paganise it for converts.
Permalink Reply by Phoenix Rising on Funny you should mention that - I had the same problem accepting the Trinity. I think the reason I can and DO resonate with the Triple goddesses and Gods is because there is no attempt to mystify the whole thing. They are presented as three DIFFERENT, discrete personae, whose qualities together comprise 'Goddess' in my mind~~ Christianity presents the Trinity as ONE GOD, of whom we see/experience three different aspects, but who are not discrete personae in themselves. Each individual concept only exists within the context of the other two, and etc. They are inextricably bound, while I can worship Brigid Herself, without invoking also the Mother or the Crone, if i see Brigid as the Maiden. Or conversely, I can Name a different Goddess as Maiden if i choose, which is impossible in Christianity.
Permalink Reply by Pumpkin Eater on My experience is different, I had a semi-physical mystical encounter with the triple goddess when I was 18. A waking vision, perhaps even an apparition of her.
I've only realised now it was The Morrigan, who is now my patron goddess.
So, a bit beyond the text books for me. But it's not something i can prove to others. But I don't need to. We don't need to convert people :)
Permalink Reply by Phoenix Rising on I can see I didn't 'explain' very well - LOL! In common practice, I was taught and see most Christians approach the Trinity as I approached the idea of the Triple Goddess/God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = the Sire,Son, and Sage; both are Triple Deities. The upper layer of the cake, so to speak. The Triple Goddess is more than that, just as the Trinity is more than that, but that is how it was presented to the common people, just as the Triple Goddess is understood by most practitioners in only the way I explained it.
I don't see a whole lot of difference between the underlying concepts of Christianity and Wicca, actually. Christianity was built on the same philosophical underpinnings as the other 'Mystery Religions' of the Near East. An 'Inner Circle' of Initiates taught the masses of ordinary devotees. The 'public faces' of all of the Mystery Religions were far different from the Initiate's rituals. I think Christianity was misled by Paul, who was NOT one of the Initiates, and thus the formal Christianity of the masses became a thing very different from the Initiate's visions and teachings. Ultimately, I think the Way to Divinity is personal, and has no given Name, just as we Create our Deities in our own images, fulfilling the 'As Above, so Below'. The Grand Spirals of the Universe~~
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